Quote by: Nepenthe Hi, I’m new here, and I would like to know if it is wrong to believe that the millennium will be on the earth, from Jerusalem?

I don't know, "wrong" could be a pretty strong word. I'd say that there are good reasons to question whether this is the case. Jesus said "My kingdom is not of this world" and the most straightforward reading of biblical prophecy would seem to indicate that Jesus comes back and takes his friends away with him. There were many at Jesus first appearing that were disappointed that he didn't set up an earthly kingdom. Many of our Evangelical friends seem to think he is going to remedy that at his second coming. I will say this, I think that if we are looking for an earthly kingdom to be set up on the principles of power, authority and coercion of those who don't agree then we make ourselves very vulnerable to the power the the Adversary who prophecy seems to portray as doing that very thing with a delusion so strong that "if possible it would deceive the very elect." But rather than trying to predict exactly what that might look like I think our only safety lies in knowing our God so well that no counterfeit can come between us.

Mark

Thanks for your answer.
But how we should understand Zechariah 14 ? (“ 4-And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east…”).

Don’t you think that is the same description than Marc 13 and Matthew 24?

Then “ 16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. “

As we could see, the God's Law is advanced in this chapter.
Maybe it could be the difference between Jesus and the adversary?

Quote by: david

Nepenthe............did you mean "incorrect" to believe?

david

Yes David, excuse me, my english is not as good as it should be...

Don’t you think that is the same description than Marc 13 and Matthew 24?

Then “ 16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. “

As we could see, the God's Law is advanced in this chapter.
Maybe it could be the difference between Jesus and the adversary?

[/p]

Just my thoughts but I believe this verse to make it clear He is speaking of LITERAL Jews and a LITERAL Jerusalem by making that assertion....and I am a post-tribber, so I do not see this as pointing to the church having been previously removed from the earth...

This is a nice Messianic Jewish site that is balanced, not extreme, they agree that Gentiles should not be forced to follow the laws of the covenant that are meant to point to a "shadow of things to come" and those that were completed by the covenant of Jesus blood...I'm not talking about the moral laws (killing, stealing, lying) but I'm talking about the ceremonial (days, celebrations, circumcision, etc)

Check them out:

http://www.messianic-literary.com/index1.htm

Let me try that again...

MESSIANIC-LITERARY CORNER link

This one is excellent too, you can learn Hebrew at this one!!!


Learn Hebrew by clicking here

Quote by: Nepenthe

Thanks for your answer.
But how we should understand Zechariah 14 ? (“ 4-And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east…”).

Don’t you think that is the same description than Marc 13 and Matthew 24?

Then “ 16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. “

As we could see, the God's Law is advanced in this chapter.
Maybe it could be the difference between Jesus and the adversary?

This reminds me of the argument between some Christians and Jehovah's Witnesses--the Christians arguing that we are going to go to HEAVEN to be with Jesus, the JW's arguing, no, we will live with Christ on THE NEW EARTH. It's a silly, pointless debate caused by ignorance on the side of both parties. The answer is, "YES".

The Bible is crystal clear that at the coming of Jesus, the wicked are slain, and the earth is absolutely desolate:

A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword. Jeremiah 25:31

Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse [Christ] and his army... [They] were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse. Revelation 19:19-21

The LORD... shall execute kings in the day of his wrath. He shall judge among the nations, he shall fill the places with dead bodies, he shall execute the heads of many countries. Psalm 110:5-6

I am going to destroy everything on earth, all human beings and animals, birds and fish. I will bring about the downfall of the wicked. I will destroy everyone, and no survivors will be left. I, the LORD, have spoken... The great day of the LORD is near—very near and coming fast! That day will be bitter, for even the bravest soldiers will cry out in despair! It will be a day of fury, a day of trouble and distress, a day of ruin and destruction, a day of darkness and gloom, a black and cloudy day... I will bring such disasters on the human race that everyone will grope about like someone blind. They have sinned against me, and now their blood will be poured out like water, and their dead bodies will lie rotting on the ground. On the day when the LORD shows his fury, not even all their silver and gold will save them. The whole earth will be destroyed by the fire of his anger. He will put an end—a sudden end—to everyone who lives on earth. Zephaniah 1:2-3, 14-18 TEV

And at that day the slain of the LORD shall be from one end of the earth even to the other end of the earth. They shall not be lamented, or gathered, or buried. Jeremiah 25:33 NKJ

I beheld the earth, and indeed it was without form, and void; and the heavens, they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and indeed they trembled, and all the hills moved back and forth. I beheld, and indeed there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens had fled. I beheld, and indeed the fruitful land was a wilderness, and all its cities were broken down at the presence of the LORD, by his fierce anger. Jeremiah 4:23-26

Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof. The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled; for the LORD hath spoken this word. The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage, and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it. Isaiah 24:1,3,19-20

In the popular view of modern Christendom (and Messianic Judaism), there is NEVER a time when the earth is depopulated.

The customs of the Jewish nation were prophetic in nature (the feasts are a prime example; the spring feasts were fulfilled by the events of Christ's first advent, not only as to the event, but ON THE DATE rehearsed by the nation for centuries. The fall feasts likewise delineate the events surrounding Jesus' second coming). The problem with Messianic Jews is that they don't even follow their own tradition regarding marriage in ancient Israel. Jesus, however, used the custom to PERFECTLY explain his coming.

When a Jewish man would "propose" to a Jewish girl, they were "betrothed". He would then go back to his father's house and start making an addition to his father's house. It was the groom's father who decided when the addition was "ready" and he could marry his bride and bring her to live in his father's house. In the interim, the bride was to be preparing for the coming of her groom for her. She knew not the day or hour, the groom new not the day or hour; only the groom's father determined that.

The groom and his party would go to his bride's house with great fanfare, and the announcement was made, "The bridegroom is coming!" He would take his bride to his father's house, where they would live. He would then begin construction of their own home, and when it was complete, they would go live there, not in the small addition made to his father's house.

Jesus is the Bridegroom. His people are his bride. When he comes, he will take us to live in his Father's house for a period of 1,000 years. After that, he will bring us to live in our future home for eternity: the earth made new. It is at THAT time that Jesus steps on the Mount of Olives--when the New Jerusalem descends (Revelation chapter 20) and all nations will come to worship at the New Jerusalem "every sabbath and every new moon". (Isaiah 66)

Hey, who will be using *swords* in the year 2007 , if Jesus were to return now? so "he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword." Jeremiah 25:31

must not mean it literally, you think? Since it's prophetic, could sword mean *word of God*,
the *truth*?

also ....."And at that day the slain of the LORD shall be from one end of the earth even to the other end of the earth. They shall not be lamented, or gathered, or buried". Jeremiah 25:33 NKJ

they are not lamented, or gathered, or buried, because the are *slain of the Lord* meaning *slain in the spirit*? and that is due to being *taught of God* or the sword?

david

Quote by: david

Hey, who will be using *swords* in the year 2007 , if Jesus were to return now? so "he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword." Jeremiah 25:31

must not mean it literally, you think? Since it's prophetic, could sword mean *word of God*,
the *truth*?

also ....."And at that day the slain of the LORD shall be from one end of the earth even to the other end of the earth. They shall not be lamented, or gathered, or buried". Jeremiah 25:33 NKJ

they are not lamented, or gathered, or buried, because the are *slain of the Lord* meaning *slain in the spirit*? and that is due to being *taught of God* or the sword?

david

Must you interject on EVERY thread and post on this forum? I don't even want to be a part of this forum anymore.

Keep spiritualizing away everything in the Bible. Let's see where it takes you.

Shaliach.....sorry, didnt know it was private thread or limited to certain folks. I've noticed 7 different people chimed in since earthcaller began this thread. it is a *public* forum, but, I will keep from responding to any post of yours from now on, if that is your wish.

peace. david