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 Forum Index > God, The Bible & Questions > The Tough Questions
 Without the Shedding of Blood There is no Remission of Sin
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By: Tom (offline) on April 24 2006 11:23 AM (Read 7704 times)  
Tom

Why not?


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By: mark (offline) on April 24 2006 11:38 AM  
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Because my bible says so!


Come, my friends 'T is not too late to seek a newer world. - Tennyson


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By: mark (offline) on April 24 2006 11:42 AM  
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Seriously though. In the context isn't Paul (or whoever) contrasting how it used to work under the old system? Certainly under the old system that is the way it worked. I'm not at all sure that it is fair to infer that the writer was saying that is how it actually works or that satisfying that old requirement was the context for the meaning of Christ's death. ???

Mark


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By: Tom (offline) on April 24 2006 12:51 PM  
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I think he's saying this is the way it works. However, that doesn't explain *why* it's the way it works that way.

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By: Tom (offline) on April 24 2006 12:57 PM  
Tom

From reading the Spirit of Prophecy on this verse, she connects "remission" with a putting away of sin.

Tom


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By: Tom (offline) on April 24 2006 13:14 PM  
Tom

Here's something from a Youth Instructor article, June 21, 1900:

When Christ died on the cross, Satan triumphed, but his triumph was short. The prophecy made in Eden was fulfilled, "I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." Christ was nailed to the cross, but he gained the victory. The whole force of evil gathered itself together in an effort to destroy him who was the Light of the world, the Truth that makes men wise unto salvation. But no advantage was gained by this confederacy. With every advance move, Satan was bringing nearer his eternal ruin. Christ was indeed enduring the contradiction of sinners against himself. But every pang of suffering that he bore helped tear away the foundation of the enemy's kingdom. Satan bruised Christ's heel, but Christ bruised Satan's head. Through death the Saviour destroyed him that had the power of death. In the very act of grasping his prey, death was vanquished; for by dying, Christ brought to light life and immortality through the gospel. Never was the Son of God more beloved by his Father, by the heavenly family, and by the inhabitants of the unfallen worlds, than when he humbled himself to bear disgrace, humiliation, shame, and abuse. By becoming the sin-bearer, he lifted from the human race the curse of sin. In his own body he paid the penalty of that on which the power of Satan over humanity is founded--sin.

Not that sin might become righteousness, and transgression of the law a virtue, did Christ die. He died that sin might be made to appear exceeding sinful, the hateful thing that it is. By his death he became the possessor of the keys of hell and of death. Satan could no longer reign without a rival, and be reverenced as a god. Temples had been erected to him, and human sacrifices offered on his altars. But the emancipation papers of the race have been signed by the blood of the Son of God. A way has been opened for the message of hope and mercy to be carried to the ends of the earth. Now, whosoever will may take hold of God's strength, and make peace with him. The heathen are no longer to be wrapped in the darkness of superstition. The gloom is to disappear before the bright beams of the Sun of righteousness.



I notice elements of the Christus Victor theme (e.g. "With every advance move, Satan was bringing nearer his eternal ruin...every pang of suffering that He bore helped tear away the foundation of the enemy's kingdom).

She also brings out that Christ lifted the human race from the curse of sin.

Christ died that sin might be made to appear exceeding sinful, the hateful thing it is.

In the same article she points out that it was according to God's plan that Christ's death be a public spectacle, to be publicized as much as possible.

I haven't been able to find anywhere in her writings the idea that Christ did so that God could forgive us, or that He died to appease God's wrath, two common ideas.

Tom


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By: Tom (offline) on April 25 2006 11:08 AM  
Tom

My man Fifield says:

You will find the text in the ninth chapter of Hebrews, and the twenty-second verse: “And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without the shedding of blood there is no remission. This text has in it the very soul and center and secret of all true Christian consecration.

The idea has obtained that God was angry with men because of sin, that God’s wrath must be satisfied; and so an arrangement must be made by which He could pour out His wrath upon His Son, and thus satisfy His justice. And while this wrath was waiting for full satisfaction when it should be poured out on His Son, a system of sacrifice was instituted which would appease His wrath temporarily, and hold it in abeyance.

But this idea of atonement, or reconciliation, separates entirely between the Father and the Son, making the Father so stern and hard that He demands his full “pound of flesh,” so to speak, and the Son so kind, so good, that He gives it out of His own heart that we may be set free. Thus instead of Christ revealing the Father, the two are opposite—entirely separated.

But no, “He that hath seen the Son hath seen the Father.” And if you want to know how God feels toward sin, notice how Christ hated sin. If you want to know how God feels towards sin, notice how Christ hated sin. If you want to know how God feels toward the sinner, notice how Christ loved the sinner.

God’s wrath burns eternally against sin, and never will be appeased; but it will consume the sinner in the end. His love is unending, unchanging, for the sinner. And just as we have learned that the moral law is not an arbitrary thing, but a statement of everlasting love and life, so, my brethren, may we learn that, although the ceremonies have passed away by limitation, yet the meaning of these ceremonies is just as true today as then. And it still is true that “without the shedding of blood there is no remission.”

What is the blood? Gen. 9:4 “But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.” What is the blood?—The life. Another text. Lev. 7:26 “Moreover ye shall eat no manner of blood, whether it be of fowl or of beast, in any of your dwellings.” Again in Deut. 12:23: “Only be sure that thou eat not the blood; for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.” This is the Lord interpreting the law. Lev. 17:11: “For the life of the flesh is in the flood; and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood.”

The life is the blood. This is the Bible interpretation; and we will let it interpret itself. Then when we read that “the blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth us from all sin,” it does not mean that by some magic-charm process or incantation, it enables him to count us as cleansed. The whole living gospel was brought forth there in the sanctuary as clearly as it is here in the New Testament, and it is just as clearly applied to human lives and human hearts; but the devil stole it away.

In this dispensation, the living gospel is revealed to us in the incarnate One, Jesus of Nazareth; and yet man loses the gospel out of Christ my making the sign of the cross; and they say, We are safe, we have made the sign of the cross. They say that by some magic process or charm word or name by which they believe on Him very hard, it will save them. They are using it precisely the same way as the ark was used back there; and the Lord has let them be taken captive from time to time, to show them that the Word in that way does not have power to save. It is not any charm process, it is a living fact. God gave us His life in His Son that we might have life, and that we might have that life to live on the earth.

I am told that it is a scientific fact that if someone will allow his blood to be taken and transfused into the veins of a poor anemic person, the first thing the blood does is to purge out the poison and sickness, and then to build him up with a new life. New blood has been transfused into that person, and new life is imparted. Do you get the figure? We are saved by transfusing blood. God has opened His mighty heart, and poured out His life in Christ, for our salvation. He has given His life that we might take it and be purified with it, and live on earth by faith. And the life of His Son cleanseth us from all sin. (Fifield GCB 1897 Sermon #2)


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By: koffee_anon (offline) on April 25 2006 16:16 PM  
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That's how I see matters as well, Tom. Fifield had it straight. It's a shame no one has put all his writings together in some form for the Church. It's so edifying.


Man cannot be towed to heaven; he cannot go as a passive passenger. He must himself use the oars, and work as a laborer together with God. {OHC 310.2}
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By: Keith A. Johnson (offline) on April 25 2006 16:41 PM  
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Isn't it interesting that human blood and/or animal blood if working properly is constantly purifing? The blood brings in oxygen and nutrition and delivers it to the cells, while removing the waste and the carbon dioxide at the same time. That is why it is the life of the body. It feeds and oxygeniates, while CLEANSING AND HEALING! If the blood doesn't we die, therefore, the LIFE is in the blood, It's NOT done by MAGIC! That is just how it works. It's NOT doing it to appease, it is just the natural results of what it does.

So, the way that I see it, the reason GOD said, "Don't eat it," is because if we won't pray and eat out of the sewer, why would we think that it is safe to pray over and eat the blood, since we don't know what side of the bladder and colon the blood was last associated? God doesn't tell us NOT to eat it, because He's arbitrary, but also because it's NOT good for us. That is why the meat, should we choose to eat it, should be purchased at a Jewish deli, at least one would know that it was "Bled" properly. The Godhead usually doesn't tell us to do anything just because They have the Authority, but because it makes Sense.


"If God's Word were studied as it should be, men would have a breadth of mind, a nobility of character, and a stability of purpose rarely seen in these times."
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By: Tom (offline) on April 26 2006 08:52 AM  
Tom

The Godhead usually doesn't tell us to do anything just because They have the Authority, but because it makes Sense.



This is a key point. "Usually" isn't even strong enough. I suppose there are a few isolated examples where God says things where we don't have an explanation as to why, but this would analagous to telling a young child not to cross the street, and having strong consequences if they do. You'd like them to understand why this "rule" exists, but without the rule they might not live long enough to learn why. As soon as they have the maturity to understand the explanation, the explanation is provided. Cars are dangerous. One must pay attention.

Similarly, sin is dangerous. One must pay attention. But until one has the maturity to understand this, God may resort to certain "rules" so that one lives long enough to learn the truth. God certainly doesn't want us to remain in the milk stage.

Telling us things solely on the basis of authority is the epitomy of being arbitrary. Satan's intention has ever been to present God as arbitrary. Arbitrariness is the keystone of all false religion and false doctrine. It's on the other side of the coin as freedom. Where there is arbitrariness, there cannot be freedom.

God wants us to know the truth, and to love Him and observe the principles of His government because we are absolutely convicted within ourselves that God is worthy of love and devotion, and His principles are right and good and true. This is necessary in order for freedom to exist and continue.

Tom


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