Canada defines new 'Hate Speech' to include homosexuality.

Do I detect a bit of cowardice in Dr. Buckingham's words? As a pastor, I am not obligated to anyone but God for my sermon content. I will continue to preach against the very things that the Bible speaks out against. This new bill is only an instrument of Satan, another step towards declaring the Bible as hate literature. I said this would happen on an earlier post regarding homosexuality, and now it is a reality. If they want to charge me and send me to prison, I could care less. I will not shirk my duty as a minister of God. I will speak His words, and His Word declares that homosexuality is unnatural and an abomination, a total travesty of what was set forth in Eden. Christianity has never been politically correct, and neither should it be. If the general, non-Christian public chooses to make no distinction between hating the act but loving the person, that is thier problem. No one will censor the things I choose to say that are Biblically based from the pulpit. We need to fight this with every ounce of our beings. If a law goes against the edicts of God, or compromises our convictions and conscience, we have no obligation to follow it as Christians.

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I'm also a pastor and don't find myself being threatend by this bill, because I never preached on homosexuality in the first place. I refuse to codemn my homosexual brothers and sisters because I just can't see how I could condemn and win them at the same time... What a hypocrite I would be as I preached from the pulpit when I myself have unclean thoughts from time to time.

I feel very strongly that I must do justice for the oppressed - and right now - the homosexual community has as its largest oppressor an organization that was called to love everyone equally.

But, I also know the hypocrisy I would be practicing if I also didn't realize I must love those that I percieve as oppressing homosexuals. So, I will continue to put my focus on that which takes care of my own sinful problem - God's character and His methods of showing freedom.

Interesting that God Himself doesn't force homosexuals to be heterosexuals but we as a Christian community feel obligated to "strike the rock and bring forth water"...

The real proof that the time of the end is near is NOT homosexuals being given marriage status or The Bible being claimed as hate literature (what an enigma - Christians have been using The Bible to propagate hate for centuries!) - no no no - the real sign is that Christians denounce those that don't conform to their standards under the banner of "love and God". I see so many similarities in The Great Controversy Motif.

My two cents.

Love,

- Marco

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"HeavenlySanctuary.com - Surf The Innernet!"

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Marco, I have clarified much of this same information in that past post, but I will repeat myself for the benefit of those who haven't delved into the archives of HS.com..

First off, I always say that we must make the disctinction between judging and preaching against sin. They are NOT the same thing, and it's unfair to me and other pastors who engage in this Biblically endorsed work to imply otherwise. We are called, as clergy, to preach against sin of ALL sorts. This includes the sins of Christians and the world as well-it's all encompassing. While there is a place for them, God has not called us to preach just fuzzy, warm, safe sermons all the time. Sometimes toes must be stepped on and people must be offended (just ask Ezekiel, John the Baptist, Jeremiah and Elijah.) Certainly we are as fallible as anyone else, but our shortcomings do not cancel out the fact that we are, by our very vocation, to call sin by it's right name. Any preacher worth his salt will always clarify for the congregation that he is speaking to himself as well the audience when he does this.

Just because the world considers homosexuality another pet cause on their list of politically correct items to fight for, doesn't negate our duty as pastors to expose it for what it is. By being silent we are only unwittingly contributing to the lie that this is just another alternative lifestyle, as normal as heterosexual relationships. It is not, and we Christians darn well know better than that, so let's not be intimidated by the world in our proclomation of it. Love does not keep silent concerning wrong behaviour. In fact, keeping silent is just the opposite. It's enabling. If you don't show people, from the Bible, where they are going wrong, how will they ever know that they have to change? Loving someone does not mean leaving them in thier sins. It's not always a pleasant work to do, but it comes with the territory. We didn't sign up for fun and games when we accepted the call. People will not respect pastors who do not speak out against sin, it's that simple.

There is no 'condeming' of the person involved here. If there is, the pastor isn't doing it right. DON'T mistake the two Marco. I am not condeming the people, but the act. I have Biblical grounds for doing it, and I will do it. I don't want anyone to be mislead to think that it isn't possible to do this in love, because it is. I have done it before, and accomplished just what you said couldn't be done-won the person over to Christ. He is now Adventist and celibate, and appreciates the fact that I didn't leave him in his ignorance concerning how God feels about homosexual behaviour. I loved him enough to tell it to him straight.

As far as 'oppressing' the gays or 'forcing' them to change thier lifestyle, Marco-come on! That is inflammitory speech, and it's unfair! You are painting us as these hateful people who have no concern about homosexuals at all. If we didn't, we wouldn't bother pointing them to a better way of living. These are not our standards by the way, but the Bible's standards. The last time I checked, this was what we as pastors were supposed to be endorsing and leading people to accept! God does not 'force' anyone to accept these standards to be sure, but rest assured that those who do not live the way God commands will not get into Heaven-period.

This law is an infringement on our freedoms as preachers. It's censorship, plain and simple.

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How high should we raise the standard, Michael?

How about as high as Adam and Eve before they fell? Lucifer before he rebelled? Can raise the standard HIGHER then perfection?

Standards will not change a person's heart. Love will. Let's stop condemning sin and start uplifting Christ.

Love,

- Marco

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"HeavenlySanctuary.com - Surf The Innernet!"

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The standard is Christ. He is the one we should be modeling our behaviour after. He is the one we should emulate and try to copy. He is the only one we should be comparing ourselves to. We can never reach His level of perfection, but we are to try anyhow.

Yes, we do have a work to do in and of ourselves. We are to 'work out our salvation' with fear and trembling the Bible says. But as pastors, we do not have the same luxury that lay people do. We cannot just be totally self-involved with our own spiritual experience and growth. We have people that we are responsible for. There are sheep that need shepherding, and that is what Christ has commissioned us to do as ministers. Part of that work of shepherding is to warn against sin and let the world know exactly where we as Christians stand on issues:

"Son of man, speak to your countrymen and say to them:'When I bring a sword against a land, and the people of the land choose one of thier men and make him thier watchman, and he sees the sword coming against the land and blows the trumpet to warn the people, then if anyone hears the trumpet but does not take warning and the sword comes and takes his life, his blood will be on his own head. Since he heard the sound of the trumpet but did not take warning, his blood will be on his own head. If he had taken warning, he would have saved himself. But if the watchmen sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet to warn the people and the sword comes and takes the life of one of them, that man will be taken away because of his sin, but I will hold the watchman accountable for his blood.' Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them warning from me. When I say to the wicked, 'oh wicked man, you will surely die,' and you DO NOT SPEAK OUT TO DISSUADE HIM FROM HIS WAYS, that wicked man will die for his sin and I will hold you accountable for his blood. But if you do warn the wicked man to turn from his ways and he does not do so, he will have died for his sin but you will have saved yourself." (Ezekiel 33:2-9)

"Israel's (the church's) watchmen (pastors) are all blind, they all lack knowledge, they are mute dogs, they cannot bark..." (Isaiah 56:10)

God is rebuking ministers who do not sound the warning against sin, and expose it before it creeps into the church. We have failed, for the most part, to do this over the years, especially with homosexuality. Now the California conference and others have a number of 'gay Adventist' churches, where practicing homosexuals and lesbians get together and worship God under the pretense that thier actions are normal and right in God's eyes. We have sown the wind...now we are reaping the whirlwind. Our pioneers would weep if they saw such things taking place in our denomination.

For me, love and standards are inseparable. Love requires that a person live within God's will. If you love me, keep my commandments-Christ's own words. Living according to God's standards is proof that the heart has changed. And that change will happen when a person sees the more full and abundant life that God desires for His creation. Uplifting Christ involves speaking out against sin. Christ was our example and He always spoke out against sin, so we should do likewise.

Adam, Eve and Lucifer all had a choice. God made them perfect and there was no reason at all why they should have ended up the way they did, except for simple disobedience and the submission to their own selfish inclinations.

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I don't even know how to respond to this, Michael. Do you really think that we "pastors" are called to sit as watchmen on the Heavenly Walls?

You can denounce homosexuality from the Towers of Heaven as Christ gets down and washes their feet.

By the way, you better not skip church next week. The Bible says we can stone you.

Of course, Christ comes a long and says "you have heard an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth but I say turn the other cheek and love your enemies!"

They ended up condemning Christ as someone who twisted the scriptures to meet His own purposes.

I don't think homosexuality is God's ideal. I don't think He ever intended for it to happen. But what is MY job as a Christian now that we are 6,000 years on this side of the tree of life?

And let me just say, that you do NOT speak for all pastors when you make the statements that "we are called to call sin by its rightful name". I pastor over 140 youth and tell them almost every day, that if they are going to sin, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, take God with them. "This is a hard saying - who can accept it?"

In Service,

- Marco

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"HeavenlySanctuary.com - Surf The Innernet!"

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I have no doubt that you Michael are one of the few pastors who is loving and kind but there are many out there who are more concerned with being a 'watchtower' for the Lord than anything.

Many of these pastors and lay people love to say that Jesus did not bow down to political correctness and that He "called it as He saw it," however, the only people He gave stern rebukes to (and I'm sure with tears in His voice at that) were the pastors, scholars, learned men of the day..the white-washed "watchtowers" of the day. And those rebukes were not because these 'tombs' were being to lenient. It was quite the opposite.

Homosexuality is NOT a lifestyle that will prevent entrance into a loving and trusting relationship with Jesus Christ just as a heterosexual lifestyle DOES NOT gain automatic entrance into a loving, trusting relationship with Him.
If I remember correctly, Jesus LOVED and by His lovingkindness, He drew followers to a humble repentance.
A heart that confesses by way of force, fear, or humiliation will NEVER ENTER INTO THE PEACE THAT PASSES ALL UNDERSTANDING or enter into a union of heart and mind with the the King. It is a heart that will darken and eventually rebel and hate the very One who created it.

I want to make it very clear to whoever reads this that at HeavenlySanctuary.com we welcome homosexuals, drug addicts, porn stars, liars, cheats, thieves, murderers, adulterers and your basic rebel to come...come and see why we worship the Living God.
See why it makes sense to follow Truth and Light and to never hunger or thirst again for anything the world has to offer.

We can promise you this much, if you taste just a crumb of who God really is, you will want so much more! Only God can set you free from a life degradation and shame.
Only God can wipe away you tears and pain and replace it with confidence and peace. It won't happen in an instant,it won't happen in a week even but rather a lifetime of glorious healing. All God wants is our cooperation, that is all.

So look at yourself, look past all the stuff you've done or are doing. See beyond the brokeness and know that God has mighty plans for you, plans that no one else can fulfill. Focus on His goodness, focus on His strength and love and know that by beholding Him, you will become changed.

Love,
Stacie

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I like this quote from what you just said. We should use it as a way of advertising this website:)I bet we would get some real atention. I'm Just Kidding!


"at HeavenlySanctuary.com we welcome homosexuals, drug addicts, porn stars, liars, cheats, thieves, murderers, adulterers and your basic rebel to come...come and see why we worship the Living God."

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Marco:
I ask again, since when is it love to not warn people of their sinful behaviour? Since when is it love to not lead people into all truth, if that truth includes the behaviours we as Christians are to avoid? Why do you think we have baptismal classes that educate people on our doctrine and the lifestyle changes that will eventually have to happen? It's to see if they grasp the importance and magnitude of the decision they are making. Of course Christ's acceptance is unconditional! I never said otherwise, and I don't appreciate the implication! But it is misleading to let new converts think that that is as far as they have to go in thier Christian walk and nothing more is required of them.

Yes, actually, condeming sin is exactly one of the things we as ministers are required to do. If you have any doubts, then read it for yourself in Testimonies To Ministers. I thought the passage from Ezekiel was quite self-explanitory, but if you believe that it is symbolic or referring to something else (which I assume due to your 'stoning' comment ???) Then it is pointless to continue in this discussion. My reading of Bible commentaries and Spirit of Prophecy states quite clearly that the word watchmen is interchangable with teacher or leader of the church. I have countless quotes form both sources that confirm this, but I don't have time to list them here.

Of COURSE this should be done in love and with sensitivity! I THOUGHT I had made that clear! Don't try and portray me as someone who endorses a mean, condeming approach to these things. I have better people skills than that after being in ministry for five years!

I was never trying to include ALL pastors in my comments. I am just stating what the Bible teaches in regards to what is expected of us as ministers. You can take it or leave it, but that doesn't change the fact that it is there!

Stacie:
You are correct. Some pastor's make this the crux of thier ministry, and that is unbalanced. Remember, I said that it was ONE of the things we are supposed to do. And let me also add that if someone enjoys doing this, than they are not the person to be doing it. Just because some pastors abuse this work doesn't negate the fact that is still required of pastors.

Actually Stacie, Christ, on many occasions, dealt with the sins of others besides the Pharisees. Did He leave the woman at the well to her many husbands or did He help to convict her of the fact that her situtation was wrong? Did he leave Mary to prostitute herself or did He tell her to go and sin no more? What about John the Baptist? Was he somehow less loving than any of us because he exposed and rebuked the sins of others? I don't endorse his approach, but he WAS a man of God. And I have no doubt that he would not be welcome at all in some sectors of the church today.

I never said that drug abusers, prostitutes etc. weren't welcome to come to Christ! Good grief, I would never imply that! All I am saying, is that the Paul clearly states in Scripture that the whoremongers, the necromancers, the sexually deviant etc. will NOT enter the kingdom of Heaven. In fact he EMPHASIZES this by saying I TOLD YOU BEFORE that such will not enter the Kingdom of God! Do you guys think I am just pulling this stuff out of thin air? Does that mean they cannot change thier ways and live in harmony with Christ's principals? OF COURSE IT DOESN'T! I am NOT endorsing force, fear or humiliation! All this extreme language only hurts credibility. Whatever a person feels after reading for themselves what the Bible says about homosexuality is not my concern. The Holy Spirit works on the heart and the conscience. My job is to direct them to the sure Word of truth.

Why is it so difficult for people to separate loving the sinner but hating the sin?

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We interpret The Bible differently, Michael. I praise God that He gives us the freedom of perception.

Your Friend,

- Marco

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"HeavenlySanctuary.com - Surf The Innernet!"

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How many times have we rode this merry-go-round, eh? (Sigh.)

I do know we agree that Christ is pure love, and He welcomes all who come to Him no matter what they have or are doing. Come as you are, just like the prodigal son, and He will provide the healing that you need. Praise His name that He doesn't leave us covered with the filth of our sins.

I really hate sin, mine included. They caused the death of my best Friend.

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Do you truly believe that Jesus never condemned sin? If you don’t then check out the bible and how many times he told normal people to “…go, sin no more…” Why would JESUS say this if he didn’t want us to turn away from our sin? Jesus did not condemn the person, but the sin. If sin was OK, then tell me why are we in the mess that we are? Why do people die? Why do our parents get sick? Why do we have families getting divorced? ITS BECAUSE PEOPLE CHOOSE TO BRAKE GODS LAW AND THERE ARE CONCIQUENCES! Did Jesus not show us the correct way to live? Don’t you think we should strive for “a life of Christ” even though we may fall.

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So how do you propose that we get people to follow God's laws? What do you think will get people to see the light about how His laws bring real peace?

- Marco

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"HeavenlySanctuary.com - Surf The Innernet!"

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In my little corner of this big world I have seen people watching me, listening to me. I have even on a few occasions had some coworkers (some Christian some not) make comments to me and sometimes to others in my presents that make it clear they have been watching, noticing what I say and how I act. I have had no bigger pleasure then to have a non-Christian correct another about their language or what kinds of email jokes they repeat out loud. I have never told them to keep their porn to them selves or not to swear in front of me, they have made this choice on their own. I’m am not a super out going person so I have never told them what to say or not to say, but they have seen my actions and have taken notice. I’m not perfect like Jesus, though that is my goal. I only hope that with my imperfection that people can look past me and see Jesus. I have chosen this as my way of witnessing. God can use each person differently. There are so many ways that each person can witness for God. We just need to ask God to show us what is “our” strength and to use us to bring people to him.

When a person truly loves someone they do everything possible to make them happy. We all want to feel loved, God has promised unconditional love. Wouldn’t we be so much happier, if we could make the Perfect God, person, friend, parent, and the one who has already died for us happy? We may have to give up some things or make changes in our lives, but wouldn't it be worth it, to have the peace God has promised us.

I pray that when I get to heaven I will see someone that is there because of me.

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I wish more people realized that our ancestors founded our church on love.

Thank you, Seaman.

- Marco

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"HeavenlySanctuary.com - Surf The Innernet!"

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Anonymous,

Yes, the peace God promises is WORTH ANY HARDSHIP OR HASSLE WE ENDURE HERE ON EARTH. The good news is that we can have that peace now!! Isn't is exciting to know that we don't have to wait to be IN HEAVEN to experience heaven? We can have it today, this moment.
Thanks for your comments...

I hear you loud and clear:)

Love In Him,
Stacie

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I found your point of view correctly and totaly to subject exactly when our church will start to return to pioneer age All the times we have just ask ourselves:What Jesus will do in this matter?

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