Sign Up!
Login
Welcome to HeavenlySanctuary.com
Friday, February 10 2012 @ 08:23 PM PST
Share

Official Response to The White Estate

RE: Ellen White’s Ministerial Credentials

To William Fagal of The White Estate, Dr. Bacchiocchi & Adventists Affirm:

Despite how we at HeavenlySanctuary.com feel about the issue of woman’s ordination, the fact of the matter is we originally posted her ministerial certificate for the purpose of making those in the Adventist community aware that she even had one. Currently, this is a big issue within the confines of our SDA world fellowship and we are thrilled that people are taking part in frank and honest discussion. The original founders of HeavenlySanctuary.com, Dion Kaszas and Marco Belmonte, were in shock when they discovered this item under lock and key in the basement of the Canadian University College library where they were enrolled in the theology program. Our intention in posting this evidence was never to be controversial or misrepresent the truth.


William Fagal of The Ellen White Estate makes the distinction between ordination credentials and ministerial credentials stating that ministerial credentials are given to ordained ministers. We apologize if we caused confusion, although there does seem to be some circular reasoning taking place. The mistake we made may actually prove the point that we are trying to bring forth; that the general Adventist population may not even know that she had ministerial credentials. Why must our theology students, laypersons and pastors be left to discover this under apparent secrecy?

It is interesting to us at HeavenlySanctuary.com that these topics are not discussed more openly. A printing of a booklet on “Ministerial Credentials” would behoove all who are interested in exploring such a topic; such orderly investigation would afford individuals the chance to make an educated decision based on the evidence.

The shuffling of the words ‘ordination’ and ‘ministerial’, as if there is some distinctive difference is curious. Is it not obvious even to the most casual eye that Ellen White was indeed given proper credentials that confirm her role? Would it be ok for Enron to give out honorary CEO certificates to those that aren’t really CEOs? Mr. Fagal pointed out that the word ‘ordained’ was manually scratched out which causes us to wonder how many other certificates are in the same condition. Could it have happened after it had been issued? This is a strong possibility considering that even the SDA Bible Commentaries have had notable portions altered ‘manually.’ We also understand that when Dr. Fagal says that Ellen White was not ordained he means that there was no official ceremony where conference officials put their hands on her.

HeavenlySanctuary.com is devoted to God first and we strive to minimize that which is temporal. Having said that, yes, Mrs. White had been supplied valid credentials by men but more importantly, it is the Divine Ordination and Commission imparted by God Himself that far exceeds any human stamp. This gift which He bestowed upon Mrs. White enabled her to marry the prodigal planet with its Maker through the inspired pen. It was this that allowed her to baptize the brokenhearted with writings that have succeeded to draw them ever closer to Him, and assist in organizing the flesh and blood that makes up God’s church.

If sharing this document has succeeded in arousing individuals to drive past human opinion and seek the truth for themselves, our mission has been accomplished. It is music to our ears when we receive statements from Mr. Fagal asking questions like, “How does one explain how these things fit together?” because it opens the door to individual consideration and provides a platform for the minds of God’s people to be employed. We value Mr. Fagal’s gracious contributions to this discussion and look forward to further replies. It is encouraging to see statements such as the one he presented, “It seems to me…” because it leaves no doubt that Mr. Fagal, like HeavenlySanctuary.com, fervently seeks for the truth which can be afforded only by transparent means.

May all our exchanges demonstrate humbleness in the Lord as well as the utmost respect toward our brethren.

Sincerely, respectfully, and with warm regards,

The HeavenlySanctuary.com Team

(Marco Belmonte, Dion Kaszas & Stacie Barsumian)

7 comments

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Authored by: marco on Friday, April 16 2004 @ 07:21 PM PDT Original letter from The White Estate
From: Izidor Pokrivac [mailto:izzy_pokri@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 6:18 AM
To: sbacchiocchi@biblicalperspectives.com
Cc: info@adventistsaffirm.org
Subject: Question about ordination

What do you say about this document?

http://www.heavenlysanctuary.com/article.php/20040311183958281

Was EGW ordained minister or not?

Thanks for your answer!

Your brother in Christ,
Izidor

-----------------------------------
Dear Brother Izidore Pokrivac,

Your inquiry to Adventists Affirm was forwarded to me at the Ellen G. White Estate in hopes that I could help you with it. I am glad to do so.

The website item that you referred to is in error when it claims that Mrs. White was ordained. The document it pictures is not "ordination credentials," as the site says, but "Ministerial Credentials," the credentials that are given to ordained ministers. It is interesting to me that "marco," the person who posted the materials on the website, chose to show Mrs. White's 1885 credentials, because on this particular document the word "ordained" has been neatly crossed out with small diagonal strokes through each of the letters. The reproduction on the website is too small for this to be evident, but it is clearly visible on the document from which this image most likely was taken, "Exhibits Relating to the Ordination of Women," prepared by the White Estate staff for a presentation by Robert W. Olson at the 1990 General Conference ministerial presession. This document is available still from the White Estate. The author, "marco," also noted that Mrs. White said, on her 1909 Biographical Information Blank, that she had not been ordained. It is a mystery to me why, in light of Mrs. White's own testimony to the contrary, he claims that she had been ordained.

The same White Estate document I referred to has this note in connection with reproductions of several of Mrs. White's ministerial credentials: "For many years Ellen White was voted ministerial credentials by the Michigan Conference (see e.g. RH, Sept. 10, 1872), and then later by the General Conference. However, she was never ordained by human hands, nor did she ever perform a wedding, organize a church, or conduct a baptism." These are activities that throughout her lifetime were recognized as pertaining to the ordained minister. She did not do them. So it appears that she did not take on the responsibilities of an ordained minister, despite the credentials that were granted here.

How does one explain how these things fit together? It seems to me that the church at that time wanted to recognize Mrs. White's contribution to the church, but it didn't have "prophet's credentials" (it still doesn't). So it gave her its highest credentials, those of an ordained minister, without ordaining her and without calling on her to exercise the responsibilities of an ordained minister. The fact that on at least one such ministerial credential they crossed out the word "ordained" indicates to me that they recognized that such credentials were not a perfect fit. But they gave them anyway in honor of her unique role. Clearly, though, she did not need such credentials. She had functioned for more than 25 years without them, doing the same kinds of things that she did after she began to receive them.

I hope that this will help to clarify matters. May the Lord bless and guide you as you study His word.

William Fagal
Associate Director
Ellen G. White Estate
12501 Old Columbia Pike
Silver Spring, MD 20905-6600 U.S.A.

Phone: 301 680-6550
FAX: 301 680-6559
http://www.WhiteEstate.org

---
"HeavenlySanctuary.com - Surf The Innernet!"
[ # ]
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, April 18 2004 @ 04:15 PM PDT Original letter from The White Estate
It would appear that you have gotten yourself into a wee bit of hot water Marco! Don't worry-when the E.G. White Estate kindles the fire to burn you at the stake, I will try to untie you in time!

Still studying this issue and trying to come to my own conclusions. I can't get past the fact that I believe Paul was speaking culturally when referring to women in the church. Oh well...the debate goes on.
[ Parent | # ]
Authored by: stacie on Sunday, April 18 2004 @ 05:17 PM PDT Original letter from The White Estate
Michael,

Let the water always be hot or cold, just never lukewarm.

Love,
Stacie
[ Parent | # ]
Authored by: Anonymous on Tuesday, May 18 2004 @ 02:06 PM PDT Original letter from The White Estate
Sorry, I must be dumb - I just don't get it! I am upset that our church can claim EGW was never officially ordained. Certainly God ordained her. If we didn't, then shame on us. Do we claim to be a higher authority or have deeper insight than the Lord?

Mr. Fagan writes, "nor did she ever perform a wedding, organize a church, or conduct a baptism. These are activities that throughout her lifetime were recognized as pertaining to the ordained minister. She did not do them. So it appears that she did not take on the responsibilities of an ordained minister, despite the credentials that were granted here." If what EGW did for the work of God and our church was not "taking on the responsibilities of an ordained minister," then I've never heard of a person who has. How can we call weddings and baptismal services the responsibilities of ordination and ignore preaching, leading people to Christ, prophecy, guidance, and total devotion to God's work. And, she didn't, "organize a church"??? Who did more in shaping not just a church, but our entire denomination?

I don't care what was crossed out on a piece of paper, in my heart; Ellen White was an ordained minister of the Gospel.
[ Parent | # ]
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, June 19 2004 @ 07:52 PM PDT Original letter from The White Estate
Dear SDAmember,

I have to agree with you wholeheartedly. Your post reminds me of practically the same thoughts that coursed through my mind after reading Mr. Fagal's statement.

I'm with you, whether anything was crossed out or not, EGW rocked!!! And actually still does:)

Love in Him,
Stacie
[ Parent | # ]

My Account





Sign up as a New User
Lost your password?

Online Tool

Click Here for Video/Text Conferencing

What's New

Stories

No new stories

Comments last 2 days

No new comments

Files last 14 days

No new files
No new comments

Links last 2 weeks

No new links

Media Gallery last 30 days

No new media items